A shocking confession from Willow Creek Community Church leaders
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Posted:Apr 27, 2008 3:19 am
Last Updated:Dec 3, 2008 3:15 am 4453 Views
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Found this article on a Baptist press site
Any opinions appreciated 
Posted on Nov 6, 2007 | by Bob Burney
COLUMBUS, Ohio (BP)
If you are older than 40 the name Benjamin Spock is more than familiar. It was Spock that told an entire generation of parents to take it easy, don't discipline your and allow them to express themselves. Discipline, he told us, would warp a 's fragile ego. Millions followed this guru of development and he remained unchallenged among rearing professionals. However, before his death Dr. Spock made an amazing discovery: He was wrong. In fact, he said:
"We have reared a generation of brats. Parents aren't firm enough with their for fear of losing their love or incurring their resentment. This is a cruel deprivation that we professionals have imposed on mothers and fathers. Of course, we did it with the best of intentions. We didn't realize until it was too late how our know-it-all attitude was undermining the self assurance of parents."
Oops.
Something just as momentous, in my opinion, just happened in the evangelical community. For most of a generation evangelicals have been romanced by the "seeker-sensitive" movement spawned by Willow Creek Community Church in Chicago. The guru of this movement is Bill Hybels. He and others have been telling us for decades to throw out everything we have previously thought and been taught about church growth and replace it with a new paradigm, a new way to do ministry.
Perhaps inadvertently, with this "new wave" of ministry came a de-emphasis on taking personal responsibility for Bible study combined with an emphasis on felt-needs based "programs" and slick marketing.
The size of the crowd rather than the depth of the heart determined success. If the crowd was large then surely God was blessing the ministry. Churches were built by demographic studies, professional strategists, marketing research, meeting "felt needs" and sermons consistent with these techniques. We were told that preaching was out, relevance was in. Doctrine didn't matter nearly as much as innovation. If it wasn't "cutting edge" and consumer friendly it was doomed. The mention of sin, salvation and sanctification were taboo and replaced by Starbucks, strategy and sensitivity.
Thousands of pastors hung on every word that emanated from the lips of the church growth experts. Satellite seminars were packed with hungry church leaders learning the latest way to "do church." The promise was clear: Thousands of people and millions of dollars couldn't be wrong. Forget what people need, give them what they want. How can you argue with the numbers? If you dared to challenge the "experts" you were immediately labeled as a "traditionalist," a throwback to the 50s, a stubborn dinosaur unwilling to change with the times.
All that changed recently.
Willow Creek has released the results of a multi-year study on the effectiveness of their programs and philosophy of ministry. The study's findings are in a new book titled "Reveal: Where Are You?," co-authored by Cally Parkinson and Greg Hawkins, executive pastor of Willow Creek Community Church. Hybels himself called the findings "ground breaking," "earth shaking" and "mind blowing." And no wonder: It seems that the "experts" were wrong.
The report reveals that most of what they have been doing for these many years and what they have taught millions of others to do is not producing solid disciples of Jesus Christ. Numbers yes, but not disciples. It gets worse. Hybels laments:
"Some of the stuff that we have put millions of dollars into thinking it would really help our people grow and develop spiritually, when the data actually came back it wasn't helping people that much. Other things that we didn't put that much money into and didn't put much staff against is stuff our people are crying out for."
If you simply want a crowd, the "seeker-sensitive" model produces results. If you want solid, sincere, mature followers of Christ, it's a bust. In a shocking confession, Hybels states:
"We made a mistake. What we should have done when people crossed the line of faith and become Christians, we should have started telling people and teaching people that they have to take responsibility to become 'self feeders.' We should have gotten people, taught people, how to read their Bible between services, how to do the spiritual practices much more aggressively on their own."
Incredibly, the guru of church growth now tells us that people need to be reading their Bibles and taking responsibility for their spiritual growth.
Just as Spock's "mistake" was no minor error, so the error of the seeker-sensitive movement is monumental in its scope. The foundation of thousands of American churches is now discovered to be mere sand. The one individual who has had perhaps the greatest influence on the American church in our generation has now admitted his philosophy of ministry, in large part, was a "mistake." The extent of this error defies measurement.
Perhaps the most shocking thing of all in this revelation coming out of Willow Creek is in a summary statement by Greg Hawkins:
"Our dream is that we fundamentally change the way we do church. That we take out a clean sheet of paper and we rethink all of our old assumptions. Replace it with new insights. Insights that are informed by research and rooted in Scripture. Our dream is really to discover what God is doing and how he's asking us to transform this planet."
Isn't that what we were told when this whole seeker-sensitive thing started? The church growth gurus again want to throw away their old assumptions and "take out a clean sheet of paper" and, presumably, come up with a new paradigm for ministry.
Should this be encouraging?
Please note that "rooted in Scripture" still follows "rethink," "new insights" and "informed research." Someone, it appears, still might not get it. Unless there is a return to simple biblical (and relevant) principles, a new faulty scheme will replace the existing one and another generation will follow along as the latest piper plays.
What we should find encouraging, at least, in this "confession" coming from the highest ranks of the Willow Creek Association is that they are coming to realize that their existing "model" does not help people grow into mature followers of Jesus Christ. Given the massive influence this organization has on the American church today, let us pray that God would be pleased to put structures in place at Willow Creek that foster not mere numeric growth, but growth in grace.
--30--
Bob Burney is Salem Communications' award-winning host of Bob Burney Live, heard weekday afternoons on WRFD-AM 880 in Columbus, Ohio. This column originally appeared at Townhall website
Reprinted with permission.
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Is Praying in Tounges from God or Satan????
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Posted:Mar 4, 2008 4:06 am
Last Updated:Mar 11, 2008 7:16 am 5355 Views
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1 topic that I regularly see debated between Charismatic and more conventional churches is the topic of speaking in tounges.
There are many verses that refer to te speaking or praying in tounges.
Some are used to support the case and others to refute.
I would like to get your opinions on this and I would like your answer to be from the bible.
Lets all have some healthy debate
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THE FATHERS LOVE the perfect love :-)
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Posted:Feb 22, 2008 4:27 pm
Last Updated:Mar 4, 2008 4:13 am 4323 Views
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To my
You may not know me, but I know everything about you. Psalm 139:1
I know when you sit down and when you rise up. Psalm 139:2
I am familiar with all your ways. Psalm 139:3
Even the very hairs on your head are numbered. Matthew 10:29-31
For you were made in my image. Genesis 1:27
In me you live and move and have your being. Acts 17:28
For you are my offspring. Acts 17:28
I knew you even before you were conceived. Jeremiah 1:4-5
I chose you when I planned creation. Ephesians 1:11-12
You were not a mistake, for all your days are written in my book. Psalm 139:15-16
I determined the exact time of your birth and where you would live. Acts 17:26
You are fearfully and wonderfully made. Psalm 139:14
I knit you together in your mother's womb. Psalm 139:13
And brought you forth on the day you were born. Psalm 71:6
I have been misrepresented by those who don't know me. John 8:41-44
I am not distant and angry, but am the complete expression of love. 1 John 4:16
And it is my desire to lavish my love on you. 1 John 3:1
Simply because you are my and I am your Father. 1 John 3:1
I offer you more than your earthly father ever could. Matthew 7:11
For I am the perfect father. Matthew 5:48
Every good gift that you receive comes from my hand. James 1:17
For I am your provider and I meet all your needs. Matthew 6:31-33
My plan for your future has always been filled with hope. Jeremiah 29:11
Because I love you with an everlasting love. Jeremiah 31:3
My thoughts toward you are countless as the sand on the seashore. Psalms 139:17-18
And I rejoice over you with singing. Zephaniah 3:17
I will never stop doing good to you. Jeremiah 32:40
For you are my treasured possession. Exodus 19:5
I desire to establish you with all my heart and all my soul. Jeremiah 32:41
And I want to show you great and marvelous things. Jeremiah 33:3
If you seek me with all your heart, you will find me. Deuteronomy 4:29
Delight in me and I will give you the desires of your heart. Psalm 37:4
For it is I who gave you those desires. Philippians 2:13
I am able to do more for you than you could possibly imagine. Ephesians 3:20
For I am your greatest encourager. 2 Thessalonians 2:16-17
I am also the Father who comforts you in all your troubles. 2 Corinthians 1:3-4
When you are brokenhearted, I am close to you. Psalm 34:18
As a shepherd carries a lamb, I have carried you close to my heart. Isaiah 40:11
One day I will wipe away every tear from your eyes. Revelation 21:3-4
And I'll take away all the pain you have suffered on this earth. Revelation 21:3-4
I am your Father, and I love you even as I love my , Jesus. John 17:23
For in Jesus, my love for you is revealed. John 17:26
He is the exact representation of my being. Hebrews 1:3
He came to demonstrate that I am for you, not against you. Romans 8:31
And to tell you that I am not counting your sins. 2 Corinthians 5:18-19
Jesus died so that you and I could be reconciled. 2 Corinthians 5:18-19
His death was the ultimate expression of my love for you. 1 John 4:10
I gave up everything I loved that I might gain your love. Romans 8:31-32
If you receive the gift of my Jesus, you receive me. 1 John 2:23
And nothing will ever separate you from my love again. Romans 8:38-39
Come home and I'll throw the biggest party heaven has ever seen. Luke 15
I have always been Father, and will always be Father. Ephesians 3:14-15
My question is…Will you be my ? John 1:12-13
I am waiting for you. Luke 15:11-32
Love, Your Dad.
I got this from fathersloveletter
just google it, the BC Gestapo deleted the site even though it wasnt a link! Some Christians Hey?
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How True is the Bible
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Posted:Feb 5, 2008 1:18 am
Last Updated:Mar 4, 2008 4:08 am 4302 Views
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As a Christian I sometimes wonder about things in the bible that don’t seem to run true.
However I do know that Jesus referred to the Scriptures and so they must have been true enough for Him.
And Jesus must be true because most of his apostles died for His name, claiming that He was the of God and has risen from the dead.
All this talk of denying God and discrediting the Bible comes from Satan the father of all lies.
Atheists want to believe there is no God because then they do not have to answer to any one, they can be free to live life the way that they choice.
Satan wants you to believe there is no God because then you belong to him.
And you know, on a final note, no matter what you say about the bible, when you get through with the nit picking and look at it. It is the most amazing thing.
Here is a challenge for you all......try and live you life according to the values set down in the bible and see how your life goes!
And I don’t mean burning goats or what ever,
I mean……
Love people and treat them as you would want to be treated. (The world would be so much better, no wars or violence. And yes I know many wars have been fought in the name of religion, but that is of man, not of Jesus)
Kev
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How do you know that you KNOW someone?
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Posted:Jan 28, 2008 6:50 pm
Last Updated:Feb 22, 2008 4:30 pm 5030 Views
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I saw a post recently where someone said how do you know the person you are contacting on-line is for real.
In this Internet age it is so easy to set up a profile, and add a photo and presto your are away.
We all know that there are plenty of scammers out there and we need to be aware of them, but even all that aside, if its on the WWW that you meet or in church or on the street, you will meet someone and if they are interested in relating to you, they (and you as well) will be on their best behavior.
In most cases I would like to look for the best in people and say that this is not an outright deception but normal behavior that we want someone to like/love us and so we all present the best of us.
Then as the relationship progresses and we get more comfortable with our friend and vis versa then slowly our best behavior starts to fall and our real (normal everyday) selves come out.
It may take 6-12moths for this to happen but eventually it comes out.
And this is the true person we want to see, because that is who we are going to have to spend a great deal of our lives with (particularly if we marry them).
What is the best way to find this real person?
Stay emotionally unattached for as long as you can so that you judgment is not affected by the feelings of love.
You should only for for a freinship with a person and see where is go to from there. Really go to know them for all their strenghts and weeknesses. Then wait and see if the frienship blossoms into love.
This is by far better than looking for someone purly by how they look and falling in love (lust) with them & then finding out a few months later that you cant stand the person you love.
To become lovers too soon can make you blind to the realities of this person.
Pray about it and hope that God will give you guidance.
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spend time with God and your family
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Posted:Jan 10, 2008 1:38 am
Last Updated:Feb 22, 2008 4:32 pm 4386 Views
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Read a lovely post on Chrissy56 site today about spending time with your family.
Its soo true and it is something I wish I had realised sooner in my life 
I hear a pastor say he had been at many death beds as people passed away, he he never once heard someone say they wished they had spent more time at work or more time watching TV or doing a hoby.
They have all said the wished they had spent more time with their family.
I would like to add to that and say it is even more important to spend time with God.
He says we are to place him first in our lives.
Up until recently I struggled with this as well, but I have been learning the importance of God and how to have a personal relationship with Him.
But that will be another post.
God bless you all.
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